365: World-Renowned Low-Carb Physician Dr. Ron Rosedale

Written on June 1, 2010

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Hello and welcome back to The Livin’ La Vida Low-Carb Show with Jimmy Moore!

Today we are lucky enough–at long last–to bring you an interview with a true pioneer in the study of the low-carb way of eating and its implications for weight and general health. His name is Dr. Ron Rosedale. Dr. Rosedale worked with the Eades early on and has continued with his career ever since espousing the benefits of a controlled-carb nutritional approach. Sit back and listen to a LONG and in-depth conversation that may be controversial at times but will surely be highly informative and engaging to this audience!

ALSO: Listen in for an announcement regarding the details of the upcoming Low-Carb Cruise coming in May 2011!

LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE 365
- Join us on The 4th Annual Low-Carb Cruise to Jamaica
- Dr. Ron Rosedale bio
- The Rosedale Diet
- DrRosedale.com

Alternative Medicine, Diabetes, Disease, Health Care Providers, Low-Carb Lifestyle, Research, Weight Loss

61 Comments - Leave a comment!

CarrollJ

What a long interview!

Great to hear a doctor define health as the ability to burn fat. So often you get the other reaction about ketosis – how unhealthy etc.

The link to his NY times letter is http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E05EFD9123AF930A25751C0A96E9C8B63

One thing Jimmy, I wanted to follow up on what he was saying about Piper(?) Alpha and Beta, but clearly I misheard. Can you please let me know the spelling?
Violet

I think that was great! I’ll buy his book for myself and my family.
http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog Jimmy Moore

Carroll, it was a 100-minute interview. Do you remember where in the interview he talked about “Piper?” Not sure.
Richard A.

Not piper but ppar which Dr. Rosedale pronounced as pea-par. What he was implying is that ppar-gamma agonists that have been approved by the FDA for diabetes are potentially dangerous.

Jenny at Diabetes Update has written a lot about ppar-gamma agonists.
http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/search?q=ppar
Richard A.

PPAR stands for peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor.

Here is more on ppar –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPAR_modulator
http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog Jimmy Moore

THANKS Richard!
http://www.cutthecarb.com Hans Keer

Great interview Jimmy. This Dr. Ron Rosedale is a great guy with a very wise view. And don’t put too much weight on those first three month of saturated fat abstinence, neither does he. VBR.
- http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog Jimmy Moore
  
  Had to ask him about it. And actually it’s just the first three weeks.
  - http://www.cutthecarb.com hans keer
    
    You see, that’s what happens when you put so much emphasis ont this SAF-thing
Rosemarie

I want to thank Dr. Rosedale for doing this fantastic interview and you Jimmy for bringing it to us.

I went to his website and on the page labeled ‘Rosedale’s Writings’ http://drrosedale.com/rosedale_writing.htm
under ‘Insulin Resistance’ a little ways down, I found THE most logical, easy-to- understand, eye-opening description of the many roles insulin plays in our body that I have ever come across in my many years of studying this. It’s a 24 page pdf file and I just finished it.

There are many other subjects on that page that I have yet to read, but this particular one was a FIND for me. And BTW it applies to everyone. I suggest everyone check out this website. And again thank you Dr. Rosedale for being so generous!
- http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog Jimmy Moore
  
  He’s pretty amazing…got to meet him in person in Seattle last month. And he’s coming on our low-carb cruise in 2011. WOO HOO!
Erin

That was one of the best podcast interviews I have listened to by far. Gets my vote for being in your top 5 for 2010! Imagine what the state of healthcare could look like if we all could have a doctor like Dr. Rosedale.
Great job getting him on your show.
Thank you Jimmy.
- http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog Jimmy Moore
  
  I’d LOVE to have a doctor like him who “gets it.” Keep his name handy when I ask for the best of 2010 later this year, Erin.
- Fiona
  
  WOW, it would be amazing. Dr Rosedale was a doctor in western washington many years ago, in a quite little town he was the only doctor for miles. He would meet in the village every week, everyone would bring pot luck and he would share his science. After just 7 months, the director that hired him asked to meet for lunch. The people all loved him, people were doing great, but the hospital was getting no one admitted, only acute emergencies. It was so bad they were worried they would have to close down the hospital, the director was in a dilema. It was great the people were all becoming so healthy, but for ‘healthcare’ it is a business run for profit. So for this very reason, sadly it will take a lot to overhaul the healthcare system to what it needs to be. It is up to each individual to educate yourself and take control of what you can control. Much, as you have listened, makes sense.
DamnDirtyApe

This was a fabulous interview! Love the extended length and topics covered. I would love to hear him come back again.

I’m sending this podcast link to friends and family!
Norm

I was shocked to hear that our default energy source isn’t supposed to be SUGAR (glucose) but over the years we have forced our systems off of fat and onto glucose..no wonder why we have all of the diseases that we do..I always thought that our default fuel was glucose..yet our hearts produce 28% more energy from fat??? Always wondered why our hearts run better on fat (ketones) than on glucose..makes sense.
JayCee

BEST INTERVIEW EVER!
- http://lowcarbbetterhealth.blogspot.com Rebecca
  
  I agree, JayCee, and thanks for the link to it!
Jazzy

Fabulous! Loved the Dr. Rosedale interview!
Thank you, Jimmy!
JayCee

Just want to reply again. D@mn it’s a good interview – thanks so much Jimmy for just letting jim speak and speak and speak – he is so good!

Dr. Ron is going to love Gary Taubes! I find it hard to disagree with anything Dr. Ron says and love his common sense examples. Even the stuff on saturated fat.. and boy, he hits the nail right on with the ugly “C”(alories) word – I totally agree, its useless to measure things in “calories”

Definitely going to get the book !

So glad to hear he is joining us on the cruise – can listen to him for another 100 minutes – he is awesome!
Eliana

I loved this interview. Dr. R is so down to earth. What I am trying to reconcile for myself is that on Atkins, I am eating about 40 nc per day. His plan is more unstructured and he emphasizes being more mindful of your protein intake. So, on Atkins I am still losing at a very slow pace. How would this work on his plan

Jimmy, I know that you tried to get him to give some guidelines but I’m not sure that I can do this loosy goosy. His diet includes different fruits and some low carb bread. Just a little confused. If I struggle with Atkins which is structured, how would this work for me? Love the idea, don’t know that it would work for me.

I would appreciate any thoughts or ideas on this.
- http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog Jimmy Moore
  
  If it won’t work for you, then I’d say don’t do it. But if it’s something you think you can implement and make happen, then I say GO FOR IT!
- Fiona
  
  Hi Eliana,
  
  it sounds loosy goosy, but once you get into it, it is actually straight forward. In his book and on the website there are lists of foods you can eat from. He mentioned the blueberries, and low carb bread as some people just cannot do without. If you are used to atkins you are almost there, just put a limit on the protein, add more good fats, avocados, almonds, olive oil, olives. I am about 5.9, weight about 60 kilos, 130 pounds, so i have about 50-55 grams of protein. breast of chicken, couple of eggs, nuts, tons of salad, veggies, piece of meat maybe.. so there is a lot in a day to have.
Andre Chimene

Jimmy, Andre here. I am the Andre mentioned in the show. My wife had such a massive bleed that she was 95% gauranteed to have vaso spasms (by her Noero docs) which would have robbed her of all of her physical and mental faculties. Dr. Rosedale was on the case(without pay and as a friend), he kept my wife’s Blood Sugars controlled and suggested supplements that I kept slipping into her. As a result, 4 months outside of this horrific event, Beaumont (my wife) was just examined by a physician, who commented, that ” if I had not been told of the bleed, I would not have been able to tell that she had one”. Dr. Rosedale is truly a miracle worker.
- http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog Jimmy Moore
  
  Andre, yes I knew it was YOU! WOO HOO for your wife.
  - Fiona
    
    Andre! it was great team work between you and Dr Ron.. without you there at the hospital 24-7 during those critical times, pulling out the feeding tubes of the sugar they were pumping into her when it was at a point that you could feed her. Yes, it was quite a miracle. Yeah for Beau!
Georgette

This is absolutely the best interview so far, and that’s saying a lot because there have been so many excellent interviews! As someone else has already said, I could listen to him for another 100 minutes! His book, The Rosedale Diet, is definitely worth reading.

I have a couple of questions/comments. It is my understanding the studies that showed saturated fat caused insulin resistance included partially hydrogenated fats. Is natural saturated fat getting blamed for the effects of trans fats in the studies?

Also, in Mary Enig’s book, Eat Fat Lose Fat, page 70, she mentioned a study reported in the Lancet, 1994, that showed that monounsaturated fat was the most prominent fat in fat tissue. Dr. Rosedale said saturated fat is stored in the fat tissue. So, we have differing ideas. Enig has also said the short and medium chain fatty acids, which are saturated, are rarely stored as body fat,but are used directly as energy, which Dr. Rosedale concurred. It is also my understanding the long chain saturated fatty acids are used in body maintenance, so I wonder about the idea the body stores saturated fat in the fat tissues. Would sure love to have clarification about this.

Please extend our thanks to Dr. Rosedale.
- http://www.DrRosedale.com Dr Ron Rosedale
  
  Most monounsaturated fatty acids in adipose tissue (fat tissue) is derived from conversion of saturated fatty acids within the fat cells…
kathy coe

I agree, this was a facinating interview, very in depth. I had previously debated about getting Dr Rosedale’s book, I thought he was probably just more just going to say more of what Mercola has to say and I did not like his books. After hearing the interview, I now know his knowledge and viewpoints are far greater, I am looking forward to ordering his book.
- Fiona
  
  wait till he really gets going, it is amazing when you go deep in the roots of science, it really does all come together, but then again no matter how you slice or dice it, studies, results, labs, it works, not just for a short time, it works amazingly for longevity.
JayCee

Some feedback from the Atkins forum:

http://community.atkins.com/discussions/viewTopic.jsp?topicId=4504550&messageBoardId=1198&page=-1
- http://lowcarbbetterhealth.blogspot.com Rebecca
  
  I just went to the forum and posted my comments there, JayCee.
Tom

Excellent!Excellent!Excellent! This is one of my two favorite online interviews. The other being Robert Crayhon’s interview of….guess who?…..Dr. Rosedale.
- http://kostbloggeren.blogspot.com budzinski
  
  Re: that Crayhon interview. I found it on iTunes, but you have to log in and register on crayhonresearch.com in order to listen to it. And I cannot do that. What’s up with that? Anyone?
JimS

Best ever Jimmy!

Interesting that Prof Loren Cordain, as noted by Robb Wolf, also prefers very little satfat in the beginning… also because of the surfeit of N6 fats up to the time of making a conscious change.

This one I’ll have to listen to again.
donny

That was awesome. Loved the stuff on bone strength vs rigidity. And the take on protein. When I push myself to eat too much protein, social anxiety increases, and my energy levels go down.

And the leptin thing– when they treat rodents with leptin, carbohydrate appetite goes down, preference for sweet goes down. It’s as if carb restriction is built right in– probably only because it is. Those leptin refeeds of high carbohydrate, I think they’re highly questionable to say the least.
http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog Jimmy Moore

Glad you enjoyed this one everybody! Dr. Rosedale was VERY gracious with his time and I can’t wait to spend a week with him on the 4th Annual Low-Carb Cruise to Jamaica in May 2011. Join us, won’t you?
Sonya

I agree with everyone else – AWESOME INTERVIEW!! I, too, could listen to him for another 100 minutes. My dog would like it, too, since your podcasts dictate our walking time. *grin*

New stuff and a very easy to understand explanation of old stuff that helped me see the bigger picture and a different viewpoint on how/why this lifestyle is so much healthier for us.

I know I’ll be listening to this one again and again to absorb it all.
JayCee

Would really love to hear more about this saturated fat hardening cells walls and especially why it becomes less important once in keto-adapted fat-metabolism. How the enzimes ‘think’ differently etc.
- http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog Jimmy Moore
  
  You can ask Dr. Rosedale that question on the 2011 Low-Carb Cruise to Jamaica, JayCee!
http://lowcarbbetterhealth.blogspot.com Rebecca

I just listened to the interview over the past couple of days. Fascinating!

I was surprised to hear how few grams of protein he believes is healthy to eat per day. According to his website, based on my lean body mass, I should only be eating 50 grams of protein per day. Right now, I aim for 80, which already seems low, considering that when I started Atkins, I was probably getting 100-120 grams per day!

He mentions in the interview that a normal size person would probably get around 55 grams of protein per day. Measured in cooked chicken thigh, that would be less than 8 oz. per day. But considering that a person would get a few grams of protein from non-chicken sources (veggies, fruit), it might only come out to around 5 or 6 oz. of cooked chicken thigh per day.

Am I the only one who thinks that this is not very much? I would think that these amounts would make the Rosendale diet a protein diet, rather than a moderate protein one…
- http://lowcarbbetterhealth.blogspot.com Rebecca
  
  That should say the Rosendale diet would be a LOW protein diet, rather than a moderate protein diet.
- http://lowcarbbetterhealth.blogspot.com Rebecca
  
  I just tried to get 50 grams of protein on my fitday account. By the time I put in my veggies, I only had enough protein left for 3 eggs, 4 thin slices of bacon and 1.8 ounces of cooked chicken leg. All that added up to 50.5 grams of protein.
  
  It seems to me that if you are eating as much veggies as you want, you will have only a very small amount of protein from actual meat, etc. In my case, I had only 39.5 grams left after my veggies.
  
  Am I missing something? Is it possible that the doctor meant 50 grams of protein from meat, chicken, fish, etc., PLUS the protein that comes from fruit, veggies, dairy, etc.?
  - JayCee
    
    I simply don’t count anything except carbs. Maybe it’s because I am focussing so much on getting dietary fats in, that the protein becomes irrelevant – or let’s put it another way, that satiety dictates… But I’m sure there are some others who are more clever and consider gluconeogenesis etc. and count their proteins too.
    - Fiona
      
      some people count the protein wrong.. so chicken size of a deck of cards is around 15 grams. there is so much fibre in the veggies i dont believe he pays that much attention to the protein there. I have always just kept an eye on how much protein, roughly and try my best to stay away from carbs
jenna

Helloo, just wanted to say that this is possibly one of the best interviews I have listened to yet – on this site! It was so informative, it is yet another piece of information that confirms the, fundamentally physiological reasons that I have struggled so greatly with disordered eating from the age of 16. The ‘experts’ put it down to psychological issues and actually prohibited a fuller understanding, simply because they do not have a full understanding of the relationship between nutrition, the body and the mind. Likewise having a family that has not suffered as I do, doesn’t help matters, because of course it must be psychological; basically the message is “you’re not trying!” “To stop eating, just requires will power!” Its hard at times whilst surrounded by people that you love (family) or else are supposed to respect as the ‘experts’ (i.e. doctors) to listen to ones self instead. Though I have struggled very much with depression, bulimia/anorexia/compulsive overeating, I’m just recognizing at this moment especially, how lucky I am. My gran, for instance in her day would not have had the opportunity like we do now to find myriad resources to find a way forward. For me, rather than excepting misery, and some resigned belief of my own ineptitude defined simply by, a ‘lack of control’ I will continue to try my very best to live in good health, in mind of my gran and those of her generation who struggled. I feel very sorry for my gran, she had a thyroid problem most of her life and was overweight until she hit the 70 mark, by which time she had left behind times of her life that may have potentially been considerably happier, had she had certain resources to hand. However having said that, its not all plain sailing even now, for instance intuitively one may recognise that the ‘experts’ are not correct (conventional medicine) with their line of reasoning (should i say dogma!?) apposed to how one may actually feel and experience ones body and mind. Making it through the hoops, is yet another thing all together; to make a consistent striving for better, which may likely be conceived by those you love, or society at large as inherently selfish. What some people fail to realize is that what seems to be a largely social etiquette of not asking beyond what the community has agreed upon to provide within its means, is that this conditioning of how to think acceptably, within the rules is absolutely futile to any efforts for the best of developments, for the community. Anyway, what I want to underline in the clearest way is that, I am very glad to have found these podcasts, they reaffirm in myself the reasons for striving for solutions, also for resolve, and that actually sometimes its OK to be selfish and try to meet ones own needs – to go against the grain! Thank- you all! XXX
- http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog Jimmy Moore
  
  WOO HOO Jenna! So happy to have you in my listening audience.
PWVEGAS

I am super good at watching my carbs, I eat no sugar or starch in any form and yet I still struggle to maintain my weight and losing has been out of the question. Dr. Rosedale may have given me the answer. I believe I have been consuming too much protein based on his formula. I ordered his book but have already begun restricting my protein the past few days and I am seeing results. I seem to have broken my year long plateau. It is difficult to incorporate so little protein as well as restrict carbs; I am basically on the second phase of the Atkins fat fast. But It appears to be working for me so I’m not complaining…
- http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog Jimmy Moore
  
  I think excessive protein consumption is a problem more low-carbers deal with than they even realize. Likely from all those years of being told their diet is a “high-protein” diet so they felt like they had to live up to that expectation.
  - PWVEGAS
    
    I had been using the size of my palm or a deck of cards as a guide. Turns out my allowance (using Dr. Rosedale’s formula) is actually about half that size. (1 gram per kilo of lean body mass). I’m tracking my food now in a calculator, I can count carbs in my head but I have no idea about grams in protein. I’m learning.
Louise

Hi Jimmy,

I loved this interview. It was particularly interesting to me as a vegetarian because I’ve been struggling to add more protein but if Dr Rosedale is right then I’m already getting more than enough from all the nuts and eggs I’m eating. I went out and bought his book and I’m about to join his facebook group as well. I’m trying to find out more about his work with vegetarians in India so if anyone knows where I can find out about that please let me know!

I’ll definitely be voting for him if you do another encore week.
- Fiona
  
  Hi Louise,
  Dr Rosedale has done so much work in India, setting up health retreats with a group over and teaching the people how to take control of the body. The issue in India is not just the vegetarianism, but their love of food, bread, celebrations (sweets), eating is a community get together, a sharing of love, so there is a whole lot more wrapped around just eating there. If one is vegetarian, but wil eat eggs than you have a great source of protein. If one only gets their protein from vegetables that you will see this show up in your health down the line. In India he recommend taking some flax oil, and if they would whey protein, also introduced ways to use sprouted grains where possible.
Jennifer

I liked the interview and bought the book based on that, thinking I’d learn more. Nope, if anything the book contains less information than this extensive interview.

If leptin is so reduced by his diet, then I’d like to read the science of why that’s so, and it’s why I bought the book. He doesn’t explain it. He says that carbohydrates spike leptin, but I understood from other reading that leptin is produced by fat cells. So where does the action of carbohydrates come in? No explanation given.

Second problem I have is the comment he made saying “limit saturated fat because it doesn’t make sense to eat what you are trying to get rid of”. Hello? Where’s the explanation for that one? He’s sounding like Dr. Oz! Cell membranes being less permeable to cellular messaging is a valid reason to say don’t eat so much of it, but it’s not valid to say “don’t eat saturated fat because you’re trying to get rid of saturated fat”. NEED AN EXPLANATION!

He has many scientific papers listed as resources. I just wish he had shared some of the informations with the reader.

Probably a good diet, but you’d better be REALLY fond of fish.

I’d be glad to hear him in another interview if he would be more forthcoming with some explanations on those questions.
- Fiona
  
  I have also read the book, and it explains it very well, both about the fats, and why we need fat. Everyone hears information differently, for me the book was very detailed and explained leptin, why, how, and what to do. I would never in a million years compare Dr Rosedale with Dr Oz, that indeed is the worst insult anyone could give to a doctor of Dr Rosedale’s calibre.
  
  I hardly ever eat fish, but I follow the lifestyle very easy. I do however take fish oil every day as the benefits have been written and researched to show why.
mary titus

I can listen to this in increments thanks to a broken-down car…I am now the taxicab to the nation ;-/ I can accept the good doctor’s comments on saturated fats. I am one person who believes in easing into changes to allow the body to accept the changes and I like what he says about saturated fats. Although I am a strong advocate for eating sat. fats I can also understand that some bodies may not be up to the challenge immediately. And, perhaps this could be indeed why many experience a jump in cholesterol levels in the early months of the diet. This is also why my levels did not jump. I had always eaten more saturated fats than what anyone would consider healthy-but my cholesterol levels remained consistantly “healthy” as far as the medical field was concerned. Even when my diet was high carb.So yeah, I can accept the need to watch saturated fats at first.

Well, gotta go play taxicab to the world!!!
- Fiona
  
  Maybe the next interview Dr Rosedale will talk about his views on cholesterol. Listening to the medical field and getting your rates to the standard of healthy/low, is not as healthy as one might think. Though they (medical guidelines set by pharma) will try to catch you with their net to get as many people on statins as possible. Possibly a reason why they keep lowering that number – to an unrealistic number unless one takes a statin drug? Sounds like a great marketing plan to me. Dr Rosedale’s reason for easing in to the saturated fats is not anything to do with cholesterol, but rather it takes time to turn the body from sugar burning to fat burning, once you are a fat burner then it can handle saturated fats a lot better, and convert it to fuel with ease.
Lere

Every bit as informative as one would expect from the world authority on this subject. My only reservation is that the several supplements Dr Rosedale formerly recommended included antioxidant ones such as vitamin E. I wonder if Michael Ristow’s research has caused a rethink of his views on antioxidants.

Jimmy mentions vitamin D, I know quite a bit about that subject and I can tell you vitamin D supplements are a very bad idea unless you’re spending the rest of you’re life underground. For example Freedman et al. (2010) have found that serum vitamin D correlates with calcified atheroscleratic plaque. “Higher levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D seem to be positively correlated with aorta and carotid CP”.
http://www.cholesteroltriglycerides.net/ cholesterol triglycerides

Pretty cool stuff, but I’ll stick with my low-carb, high protein diet.
- Fiona
  
  .. so it sounds like you agree that sugar is not good for sure. So access protein turns to sugar.
Chris

His diet seems pretty high in O-6 Content.Was this addressed in the interview? I don’t recall hearing it
- Fiona
  
  Hi Chris, your comment about the diet being high in omega 6, quite the opposite, he talks a lot about avoiding omega 6 as much as you can.