346: Matt Stone Wants To Turn Health 180 Degrees

LLVLC-ep-346

Hello and welcome to our inaugural “Bloggeranza Week” on The Livin’ La Vida Low-Carb Show with Jimmy Moore! This week we’re bringing you a brand new podcast every single day with a different health blogger and we’ll be covering a spectrum of dietary approaches and comparing them to Livin’ La Vida Low-Carb.

Today, Jimmy presents arguably the most controversial of his guests this week in 180 Degree Health blogger Matt Stone. While Matt can certainly authoritatively quote from Gary Taubes, Dr. Richard Bernstein, and other ketogenic diet champions, his own personal experimentation has led him to some rather contrarian opinions of the wisdom of treating obesity and diabetes with a low-carb approach. Matt talks about his dietary self experiments such as the infamous “Eat More Everything” diet and his upcoming attempt at an all-milk diet!

Love Matt Stone or hate him, you can’t help but listen to what he has to say. Stay tuned tomorrow for an interview with the arch-nemesis of Matt Stone–“Free The Animal” blogger Richard Nikoley!

LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE 346
Matt Stone bio
180DegreeHealth.com
“180 Degree Health” blog
180 Degree Health on YouTube
Matt Stone on Twitter

31 Responses to 346: Matt Stone Wants To Turn Health 180 Degrees
  1. Gina A.
    April 5, 2010 | 11:09 am

    Thanks for deciding to post this, Jimmy! I know there has been quite a bit of controversy between Matt and the low-carb community lately, but this information could really help a lot of people, even if you yourself don’t agree 100% with what Matt has to offer.

  2. Ron
    April 5, 2010 | 11:59 am

    I really enjoyed Matt Stone and kudos to you for having him on the podcast!!

    Great new info and will definitly keep tuned in to what is going on over at 180degreehealth.blogspot.com.

    Thank you Jimmy!

  3. CarrollJ
    April 5, 2010 | 4:35 pm

    Matt didn’t mention that a reason so many today have low basal body temps: In the past people with low body temps were the ones wiped out by TB and other infectious diseases. Dealing to these infections has had the unintended consequence of the survival of the unfitest and the proliferation of heart disease, cancer, diabetes etc.

    • Matt Stone
      April 6, 2010 | 3:09 pm

      I debunk this myth in my latest eBook. Broda Barnes was wrong when he asserted that hypometabolics left the gene pool way back when. I’ve hardly seen a single person unable to raise their body temperature – some very dramatically by over 2 degrees F, even while losing weight in the process. But it is DEFINITELY highly influenced by heredity – which is getting crappier and crappier on all fronts with each successive generation.

  4. Dave Chirico
    April 5, 2010 | 6:33 pm

    Great discussion, Thanks for posting!

  5. Tilnextthursday
    April 6, 2010 | 3:43 am

    I’m very glad you had him on, Jimmy – I am someone who had a big ‘crash and burn’ after doing low-carb for a couple of years. I don’t necessarily agree with Matt as far as healing from low carb and/or disordered eating goes – but taking a more moderate approach seems to be helping my health over all.

    Keep up your great work Jimmy! Even though I’m not ‘low carb’ anymore, the food community overall needs you to pool together all of these guests who have great ideas and new research to share!

  6. Michael L
    April 6, 2010 | 7:32 am

    From what I remember, low body temperature was seen as a GOOD sign by those practitioners of Calorie Restriction (crsociety.org) for longevity benefits, such as the late Roy Walford. Low temperature was indeed associated with lower metabolic rate, which meant perhaps less damage from metabolic processes and therefore possible greater longevity. I don’t know if the research still points in that direction, though.

    [WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us ‘0 which is not a hashcash value.

    • CarrollJ
      April 19, 2010 | 12:32 pm

      A low metabolic rate = proneness to infection, weight gain, poor temperature regulation. Maybe you live longer, but it wouldn’t be all that fun.

  7. Ned Kock
    April 6, 2010 | 7:38 am

    The body adapts to a low carb. diet by decreasing its overall use of glucose, so that glucose is spared for the brain – our brain will be very “angry” and get us into a coma if glucose levels are too low. Often the concentration of ketones in the blood will increase as well, since they can also be used by the energy-greedy brain directly as a source of energy. This spares glucose even more.

    Glucose sparing cannot happen if non-brain tissues in the body are using glucose at the rate that they were before, especially if the “before” was a high carb. diet. This is why low carb. diets lead to slightly elevated fasting blood sugar levels in many people (a benign version of the dawn phenomenon), and higher post-meal glucose levels after a meal of a large potato and a honey-coated banana (all unrefined carbs.).

    In other words, we typically become much more sensitive to glucose after being on a low carb. diet for a while, especially if it is a ketogenic diet. And that is the way it should be, because cells in many tissues (especially muscle) are temporarily “closed” to glucose. That sensitivity goes away after 3 days or so of carb. loading. Many diabetics know about this.

    Regardless of this sensitivity, someone who is consistently on a low carb. diet will have much lower levels of circulating glucose than someone on a high carb. diet. Moreover, the diabetic glucose peaks of greater than 200 mg/dL, which contribute the most to glycation in certain tissues, will be entirely avoided.

    [WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us ‘0 which is not a hashcash value.

  8. Ned Kock
    April 6, 2010 | 8:05 am

    The body adapts to a low carb. diet by decreasing its overall use of glucose, so that glucose is spared for the brain – our brain will be very “angry” and get us into a coma if glucose levels are too low. Often the concentration of ketones in the blood will increase as well, since they can also be used by the energy-greedy brain directly as a source of energy. This spares glucose even more.

    Glucose sparing cannot happen if non-brain tissues in the body are using glucose at the rate that they were before, especially if the “before” was a high carb. diet. This is why low carb. diets lead to slightly elevated fasting blood sugar levels in many people (a benign version of the dawn phenomenon), and higher post-meal glucose levels after a meal of a large potato and a honey-coated banana (all unrefined carbs.).

    In other words, we typically become much more sensitive to glucose after being on a low carb. diet for a while, especially if it is a ketogenic diet. And that is the way it should be, because cells in many tissues (especially muscle) are temporarily “closed” to glucose. That sensitivity goes away after 3 days or so of carb. loading. Many diabetics know about this.

    Regardless of this sensitivity, someone who is consistently on a low carb. diet will have much lower levels of circulating glucose than someone on a high carb. diet. Moreover, the diabetic glucose peaks of greater than 200 mg/dL, which contribute the most to glycation in certain tissues, will be entirely avoided.

    • Matt Stone
      April 6, 2010 | 3:04 pm

      My glucose level was 75 postprandial with a fasting glucose averaging around 70 while overfeeding. I would hardly call 75 a big glucose spike after eating 2 baked potatoes.

      • Ned Kock
        April 6, 2010 | 6:43 pm

        Matt, you said in the interview that your blood glucose was very high (160 mg/dL, if I recall it properly) postprandially while you were on a low carb. diet.

        While 160 is high, it is not all that surprising since your muscle cells were primed to use fat/ketones for energy instead of glucose. This made glucose levels increase; a bit like filling a jug of water for someone who is not thirsty.

        You said you were puzzled by that. Well, there is the explanation. Peter at Hyperlipid and Stephan and WHS talked about this, and its link with palmitic acid.

        After a few days of carb. loading, both fasting and postprandial glucose levels fall dramatically in those who have no impaired glucose metabolism. That seems to be your case.

        • Matt Stone
          April 7, 2010 | 6:46 am

          I didn’t say anything of the sort. I said my blood glucose skyrocketed to 173 after my first mixed meal following Joel Fuhrman’s nutritarian (vegan) diet.

          My blood sugars were not high on a low-carb diet. I’m well aware of the discussion of residual high glucose levels on low-carb and Peter’s discussion on the topic. But the bottom line is that my blood sugars were far lower while overfeeding than on any type of diet. It seems highly contradictory to the conventional wisdom on how this all works.

      • Tom Bunnell
        April 7, 2010 | 6:24 pm

        Eating two baked potatoes is about like eating a half cup of refined sugar or the same amount of cake flour. — The endorphin response and adrenaline secretions when we are going through withdrawals gives us all kinds of false readings.Mental problems and sexual disfunction fit into this phenomena too.

  9. d
    April 6, 2010 | 8:29 am

    thanks Jimmy for posting this podcast. Very interesting ideas Matt speaks about. Look forward to hearing the other dudes speak this week!

  10. d
    April 6, 2010 | 8:38 am

    where is the stepan guyenet podcast?

    • Jimmy Moore
      April 6, 2010 | 9:15 am

      Dr. Stephan Guyenet is scheduled to air in Episode 374 on June 24, 2010 as part of the second round of “Bloggeranza.”

      • Matt Stone
        April 6, 2010 | 3:10 pm

        I’ll be tuned in for that one! Thanks again Jimmy.

        • Jimmy Moore
          April 7, 2010 | 6:42 pm

          THANKS for stirring the pot as only YOU can. :)

  11. Kaity
    April 6, 2010 | 12:54 pm

    Thanks so much for deciding to post this interview, Jimmy! I admire you even more for it. This is now added to my list of favourite LLLCS episodes.

    I’m four months off low-carb, and three into Matt Stone’s overfeeding thing. So far I’ve gained fifteen pounds. I was kinda underweight to begin with, so it’s cool with me. I’m also sleeping better.

    I’ll come back sometime, a few more months into it, and let you know if it’s raised my temperature any.

  12. vargas
    April 6, 2010 | 2:52 pm

    I really enjoyed this interview Jimmy! Although I am on the Atkins diet and doing well on it this wasn’t easy for me to hear but I am intrigued by Matt’s ideas. I will be checking out his blog and website.

    Great interview!

  13. Tom Bunnell
    April 7, 2010 | 4:07 am

    Ten to one says Matt tried eating cheese while doing zero carb and plugged up tighter than a drum.

    • Matt Stone
      April 7, 2010 | 6:50 am

      I ate cheese at first, and was not constipated at all. It was the reduction in metabolic rate and transit time that caused constipation, and I was eating almost exclusively ribeye steak and water in the 3rd and 4rth weeks. The mental problems and lack of sexual function were far more of a concern than any butt-pluggage though.

  14. Carl
    April 7, 2010 | 9:12 am

    Very interesting interview Jimmy,

    I heard a lot of things that I already know to be true and some other things that I am going to look into. The name of Matt’s site is great. There are so many things related to health that are totally upside down (180 degrees off) like the food pyramid, eating fat and cholesterol. He could very well be onto something with this high everything diet. With the low carb diet initially it is a lot easier to lose weight. As we well know, as time goes on it becomes much more difficult to get the same results. My first step; buy a thermometer.

    Thanks for your good work.

  15. Undertow
    April 7, 2010 | 11:23 am

    Thanks for posting this Jimmy!

  16. donny
    April 8, 2010 | 7:10 am

    Matt mentioned that some children are born with compromised metabolisms (mitochondria dysfunctional at birth, etc.), due to the exposure to the mother’s hormonal/nutritional imbalances. This doesn’t seem to fit in with the idea that we all have the same basic nutritional needs.
    Nutritional/hormonal status during development is extremely important. If you look on the level of cellular differentiation, an example of this importance can be found in bone predecessor cells. Expose these cells to leptin, and they are more likely to differentiate into the kind of bone cells that fill up with minerals and give our skeletons their strength. No leptin, and the cells are more likely to become bone adipose tissue.
    Hormonal decisions like this one are extremely important during fetal development. Maybe you can eat (high everything) your way out of obesity that is caused by fat-storage “rebound” caused by starvation dieting; but if your overweight is the result of early fetal and childhood metabolic “programming,” then that diet might need some severe tweaking, to say the least.
    The question of whether carbs generally (rather than specifically refined carbs) cause metabolic syndrome in the first place is a good one, and the answer does seem to be no. Whether or not it is wise to restrict carbs once the metabolism has already been compromised is an entirely different question.
    In a mixed diet, the hormonal responses necessary to handle the nutrients coming into the bloodstream seem likely to be more complex when compared to an exaggerated diet such as Atkins or Fuhrman’s diet. Such an exaggeration might help people who have trouble switching between the fasting and fed states (between fat and glucose metabolism), Atkins by avoiding the switch in the first place, and Fuhrman’s by sort of forcing the issue with all those carbs.

    That both diets would worsen the blood sugar response to a mixed meal is unsurprising; the body adjusts enzyme and hormone production etc. to handle the habitual diet. Suddenly going back to a mixed diet is sort of like Atkins induction in reverse.

  17. Andy
    April 8, 2010 | 10:26 am

    Thanks for having someone on that thinks differently than you do Jimmy. Huge food for though….

  18. kem j
    April 8, 2010 | 11:04 am

    I really enjoyed this beath of fresh air. I did a 10 day stint as a vegan whilst at the Gawler Foundation (a short live in course in coming to grips with cancer) and lost 2 kg! I was already short 7 or 8 from chemo and radio.

    I now enjoy Matts overeating diet. No idea of the number of calories but I can’t get my weight over 65 kg (but I do excercise a lot). I’ll have to start looking at my morning body temperature.

  19. Violet
    April 9, 2010 | 8:12 pm

    I would definitely recommend anyone thinking about trying an overfeeding to increase his or her metabolism/body temperature….think twice. As someone who does have hypothyroidism and low body temp., I can tell you first hand that overeating always and immediately has an adverse effect on my health, my sleep and my mood. I do seem to have positive results when I follow the advice of Byron Richard’s Leptin diet, and keep the foods fairly low carb, so I am happy to hear that Matt is going to do more research in that area.

  20. Sandra
    November 4, 2010 | 2:27 am

    I don’t understand, Matt Stone, why do you advocate high carb when you’ve said yourself that other communities on low carb/high carb are perfectly healthy – its just the refined western diets which are unhealthy. Why would it matter if you were low carb or not if you don’t eat any refined foods? I’m low carb, my body temp is fine 36.8 , my FBG is 80. But if I eat a baked potato I’m no good for 24 hours. I just avoid it as its a lot easier for me. I don’t understand why that is wrong if I’m avoiding all refined food.

  21. Sandra
    November 4, 2010 | 2:31 am

    Also you say that your blood glucose went down after eating lots of carbohydrates. But that could mean that your pushing out huge amounts of insulin – which your body will stop being able to do eventually as in many diabetics. I am pre-diabetic so my post meal BG is high for a long time if I eat high carbs.





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