Is Dean Ornish’s ‘Spectrum’ Just the Same Old Song and Dance?: Part 3 of 4 (Episode 117)
3 03 2008
From the video “Love and Survival with Dr. Dean Ornish”
Hello and welcome back to the world’s leading low-carb podcast show, “The Livin’ La Vida Low-Carb Show With Jimmy Moore!” This week we will be presenting Parts 3 and 4 of Jimmy’s exclusive interview with a man who built his career as a low-fat maven, but is now trying to distance himself from that title–Dr. Dean Ornish.
Today, in Part 3, our host Jimmy continues his debate with Dr. Ornish as they discuss his new book, The Spectrum: A Scientifically Proven Program to Feel Better, Live Longer, Lose Weight, and Gain Health. Is it really a break from low-carb versus low-fat (as Dr. Ornish wants you to believe) or is it the “same-old-same-old” wrapped up in a new cover? Listen in as our Jimmy and Dr. Ornish discuss low-glycemic fruits and non-starchy vegetables and how pervasive sodium intolerance really is. All this and Moore in Episode 117! 
Let us know what you think about this interview segment in the show notes below! The discussions have been incredible so far in the rest of the interview segments, so keep it going here. THANKS for listening! 
LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE 117:
– Part 1 of this interview
- Part 2 of this interview
- Jimmy Moore’s previous interview with Dr. Ornish in October 2006
- Part 1 and Part 2 of the audio of that interview
- Dr. Ornish on Wikipedia
- Dr. Ornish’s Preventive Medicine Research Institute
- The Spectrum: A Scientifically Proven Program to Feel Better, Live Longer, Lose Weight, and Gain Health
Popularity: 49% [?]
From over 400 pounds to 230, Jimmy Moore is 
Jimmy,
Does his book get into any of the whys and wherefores of how his ‘healthy’ diet leads to better heart health? Is the science for that in his book? I applaud his not considering epidemiological ‘risk’ factors as proof of what the ‘evidence’ shows. Show me the money Dr. Ornish and I could be persuaded. Maybe. Ancel Keys thought he had the answers. NOT.
I see he didn’t really want to open up pandora’s box by answering your question on the Inuit. He does admit we in essence don’t know what we don’t know when it comes to diet and there is more to learn.
I believe he misses the whole point of Taubes book proving he hasn’t read it (which you said today in the GCBC forum that he hasn’t). Taubes asks for real science on the carbohydrate hypothesis. That was all he was asking for as the previous stuff was all bad science.
Ornish includes his selective studies on the various subjects in his book, JD, but he completely ignores the body of evidence that Taubes and others have been pointing out in recent years. I kept asking him why he is not interested in the latest studies and his answer is that he’s already conducted the research and it’s settled. That’s not science, that’s simplistic adherence to one’s creed. It’s unfortunate because he gave me such hope and promise when we last spoke in our interview two years ago that he has really changed. Dr. Ornish still has a long way to go.
Jimmy,
Part of the problem with Dr O. is that he uses the wrong diagnostic tools to judge the effectiveness of his approach vis a vis cardio-vascular disease. He doesn’t employ, or indeed refer to, calcium scores. Instead he employs nuclear stress tests and other tests and imaging techniques. As you would know from Dr Davis and his Track Your Plaque program, the Ornish approach does not improve CVD — it makes it worse. Dr Davis has had fantastic success, as you would know from your interview with him.
I know that your Ornish interviews are now done and dusted, but did this vital aspect come up in part 4?
Michael Richards
He wasn’t interested in that at all, Michael. Dr. Ornish had his talking points and unfortunately that’s all we got from him. Listen in to Part 4 and see for yourself.
I wanted to bang my head throughout the entire interview. He just wasn’t interested in listening to anything that wasn’t on his list at all! Great Job Jimmy, I know you probably wanted to shake him through the phone at some points.
Yep, you’re right Maya! There’s one more segment on Thursday for more head-banging action.
At this point it would behoove all of us to simply tune out Clueless Dean and move on with Livin’ La Vida Low Carb!
Ahhhh, I agree Alex, but not after hearing one more segment from the clueless one.
Another interesting interview. While Dr. Ornish likes to point out studies conducted with his dietary approach, remaining unconvinced a diet high in fat and low in carbohydrate might have a similar benefit, he’s able to remain steadfast because he’s relying on the context of the diet prior subjects consumed to starting his dietary approach – the average, piss-poor diet Americans consume.
How well does a truly low-carbohydrate diet stack up against the Ornish approach?
Hard to say since no well-controlled trials have been conducted with the necessary three groups: the controls, the Ornish group and the low-carb group…..with the latter two making changes to their dietary habits only (no stress reduction, no exercise, no other changes, period) over an extended period of time (say, at least six months) with accurate patient education for each dietary approach (ie. low-carb isn’t indoctrinated about saturated fat is bad, bad, bad and made to believe they need to use liquid vegetable oils instead of butter or eating meat) and with both groups expected to consume similar intake of non-starchy vegetables (perhaps, say, 3-cups per person per day), along with each provided the same fish oil supplements and multivitamin a day. If one or the other group winds up eating more or less vegetables, fine, but both must be educated to target similar intake of non-starchy vegetables to have a fair comparison.
Dr. Ornish states he prefers including people in his research team whom are sometimes even “hostile” to his ideas – hey, do this study, and I’ll handle patient education for the low-carb subjects and I can guarantee they’ll not only have a higher rate of compliance, they’ll also do better with intake of essential micronutrients too….something he doesn’t talk much about, huh?
Where I do totally agree with Dr. Ornish – stress plays a very big role in our lives and how our health is effected over time with too much stress. I do think that is a HUGE contributing factor to the benefits found in his data – that subjects are taught how to reduce stress, how to pay more attention to their stress levels, and how important the mind-body-spirit connection is in our health. It’s also a huge confounding variable in his data that is not acknowledged as such. But I digress!
Off to the next installment….
Dr. Ornish seems interested in seeing a compelled study showing a low-carb diet a la Atkins vs. his own low-fat diet regimen. Hopefully some researcher will take on that challenge and make it happen. While he wants the “diet wars of low-fat vs. low-carb” to end, the truth of the matter is it is completely relevant and important to discuss and analyze why one or the other may be best for someone based on their metabolic makeup. It’s something I kept trying to get him to acknowledge in our interview–to no avail.
He’s not interested or it would have already been funded and done.